The Grace Meeting With no Commentary


"All were baptized into Stewart Traill. In every sense of the word: his teaching, his concepts, his view on life, his skepticism of other Christians. 'Go and learn what this means"

Blessed is he and blessed is she who is able to get free from the grip of Stewart Traill and the Church of Bible Understanding, and those who are able to overcome his lies and curses will have a great reward.


[the ( ) are the voices of the brothers and sisters collectively] [Everything is spoken by Stewart Traill, unless indicated otherwise.]

By Grace you are saved never by faith, by grace. You've heard it how often? (a bunch of times) You were in fact, as Gayle pointed out, kept in restraint. You were kept under tutors until this day. There is also, in no way to excuse my error. There is also an amazing working of God in all this it's, not to excuse at all, not to excuse me at all. That's one we'll have to get into.

Job "Behold you have instructed many and now it has come to you." "Nevertheless if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. (thank you Jesus)

A child, as long as he is a child, is no better than a slave, he is under tutors until the day the father appoints. You better be glad you were and there is this too, you better be glad you were, the alternative is worse, appalling as this is. If I hadn't grabbed you, what then?

[speaker?...saved from my own backsliding, I can see in my own life where I was headed, I might be dead, I can honestly say I might be physically dead...]

Yet as I said all along, but my spirit didn't mean it, it's not me doing it, it's God doing it, and it was!

You've all been reading Romans a lot lately. (yes) You've all been reading Romans a lot (yes), and could not notice this?

Well, it is clear that God has decided that it is time for you to transfer your allegiance, if that's the word, from my spirit to His Spirit (yes, thank you Jesus). There are deeply ingrained ideas and feelings, running wild in our fellowship, many of them directly or indirectly can be traced back to my error.

Everything has to be re-examined. And this is a good time to do it. What has happened is this, this is another set of, some sort of ah, ah, some sort of tying my error to your problem, and, ah, how do you think I'm doing Gayle?

Gayle: I'm not really sure.

Stewart: In speaking anyways.

Gayle: (no answer)

Stewart: I have been unable to speak, almost, right Gayle?

It is again, only His grace, that I am even physically able to speak right now, that is coherent. I have been a help in many ways, but have torn down in others, we have come to depend on faith instead of Jesus, by faith, the stress is subtle yes. "It's up to you and your faith." Is that the idea that you have? (yes) Somehow I cheerily bounded off with that idea, and the brothers couldn't keep up with me, faith in His love but it's up to you, somehow, these are absurdities.

Why did God allow this? You think it must be because of wrong in me (yeah,muttering) this illness is not unto death, it is for the glory of God" You're saying that kind of thing? Unless, then there's me, how can this be?

Furthermore, furthermore, let us, let us erase this whole meeting now, this has never happened, even so I would not rightly, now again, forget the wrong, but I was not rightly strengthening the brothers, you don't think so? See you say, "Oh, you've been so much help." Go ahead say it. (yeah, yes) It yet remains it's true, I haven't been, what then?

Jesus told the parable, there was a rich man, with a trunk, put all kinds of money in, and the woman put one penny in, now, what's the point? (guessing) I could cheerily keep going this way I could, I could cheerily keep going, but in affect I was just saying to the brothers, what it comes down to, whether I thought I was doing, what it comes down to, is saying, "Well, it's up to you, you've got to be faithful," and so forth. So, where is strengthening the brothers the real way? It isn't.

Strengthening the brothers in faith that you are his chosen, first and foremost, and I am not, to my shame, building up on the one hand and tearing down with the other, bull in a china shop, I hear my friend back there.

It really has been, and I want you to know something else, are you listening? (yes) You must understand this, how hard to believe again, this is nothing, there is a real way in which I have been as or more a victim than you. Now think of that. You didn't waste 25 years and had he not rescued me, as he rescued you, a short while ago, I wonder what would have become of you. It was that bad, getting that bad.

This has been a stumbling block for all of us, including me, poison talk, "God gives you what you need to get started and then it's up to you." My, my, look how easily everyone is returning now, how easily! (yes). Why is it so easy? They are returning so easy, because He's doing it (yes.yeah). And all this error, he is overlooking, as it were, and bringing us back, but enough is enough.

Putting to death: "I can do this part over here myself." I can see that working in me. That's what the brothers, and I would forever teach about Samson, and I'm the most, and I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not a hypocrite, you understand this? (yeah) You don't get that? (yes) How many of you don't? He doesn't. How many don't understand that? Gayle how 'bout you defend me, while I just, I did it in ignorance.

Gayle: Yeah, the way he was doing it himself.

Stewart: A hypocrite knows he was. (right! yes! yeah!)

Gayle: Nobody was telling him, "Look, yer doing it this way, and there was nobody telling him.

Sister 1: Nobody tried telling Stewart before? I just find it hard to believe.

Stewart: Let's hear it.

Sister 1: I don't want to be judgmental.

Stewart: Yeah, let's hear it

Sister 1: I find it hard to believe. So many brothers talked about it. I was always under the impression that they wrote you letters and tried to tell you, I mean that's what I always heard, and I don't even know the whole truth, but David Wilkerson told brothers and sisters that he tried to talk to you and that you wouldn't listen to him, I don't want to be judgmental, I know I have a lot of faults too, I just think you had to have some clue. You pushed everybody away and made it so hard for everyone to talk to you.

Stewart: And you're glad I did to, aren't you?

Sister 1: yeah but I..

Stewart: Listen, let's start over, you said, "A lot of brothers and sisters think about this." No, they don't. They never, never, never, thought that this was bad. No, they never thought, they thought there was something wrong of course! Of Course! there's something, they didn't think anything of this, and neither did I. Now you say, 'didn't anyone try to talk to me?' Well, friends like him. "How you have helped me," and David Wilkerson, well I don't remember, this was 25 years ago? (yeah) And if my old wine is this bad, what must the new wine have been? I don't know what I was doing with him, I don't remember anyway. I don't know what I was trying to say, it maybe as bad as him, I don't know, there is this also. Me and other Christians. You know that scripture: "Woe to him who is alone when he falls." (yes) Well, I know that scripture, you don't. I know that now. You don't know what that means. Why am I alone? Why is it that there is no fellowship between me and other Christians?

First of all, I gave up long ago. That was my sincere claim, but why, what was the trouble in the first place? Perhaps it was, while insisting, perhaps they were trying to land me with grace, now I doubt it, now I doubt it. But! it may have been, that may have been the case. Perhaps someone did somewhere, had to have been way back. Perhaps someone did try. Perhaps someone noticed. I have no way of dealing with it. No memory no...

I repeat what I said, I think if you showed this, (referring to the 12 ways workbook), they would murmur nice things, instead of throw up. What do you think? (yes yeah) Well try it! Try whoever can, you want to.

Brother 1: I did show somebody and they thought it was wonderful..

Stewart: I am afraid that's what would happen...I am afraid that's what would happen, but you know, but you know, it isn't right to do really; because then it is to their shame. Yer just sticking pins in em. And even if you then try to argue and correct them as I might have done 20, 25 years ago tried to do...for an argument , to learn, some such thing.

Stewart: Let's hear some more: what you find hard to believe, cuz I do too.

Sister 2: I find it hard to believe, how I often, and we all so often say: "By the Grace of God," and hearing you speak to us, I now see how those words were empty.

Stewart: That's right.

Sister 2: I wasn't conscious of what I was really saying, just what I was taught.

Stewart: And who is the emptiest of all, me, I was devoid, I was unconscious of grace. I really wonder if some of you were more aware of grace than I. I really think so, because it's zero with me.

Sister 3: I remember too.

Stewart: There might as well not been the word in the bible. You never heard me say 2 words. Did you ever discuss grace, anyone of you? (yes) Wait a minute, wait a minute, she's first anyway, wait a minute, listen , did any of you, just raise your hand, did any of you discuss grace a year ago and more with anybody? Well then yer way ahead of me, way ahead right there! Because, to you, the word existed and that's way ahead of me.

Sister 3: I remember about 10 years ago, um the sisters and brothers in New York found some Brother: Monbleau, Wayne Monbleau, and his whole teaching was based on grace, the grace of God, and they would all talk about the grace of God and everybody there, everybody in New York, would like mock them and put them down, and I really don't know, that's what I remember.

Bobby Whipple: I just heard him on the radio.

Stewart: huh?

Bobby: I just heard him on the radio, on the way here , I don't know, some of the things he says.

Stewart: And?

Bobby: He does speak of the grace of God.

Stewart: Ya know, something else even more appalling? All these subjects, many of the subjects dealing with God's grace, are in fact fairly accurately dealt with here, everything around grace, but grace doesn't exist, that's, that's more amazing. God's love is in here all over and relying on Him. You see, God was, eh heh, I guess ah, I guess...

Stewart: They're all running out now. It's getting too boring. (nooooo) Apparently. (no)

Stewart: Listen, God was revealing to me, over some time, when I said, ya know, back Jan 1 when I said "He was restoring me too, I didn't know the tenth of it, I didn't know the tenth of it.

Stewart: Nevertheless, um, Gayle has been reading the bible studies recently, all the bible studies and see how it's working towards grace and the subjects around it, hard to even say, I don't know what the sessions are, I knew I didn't know what they were. God was bringing us to the real basis.

Stewart: I was selling 'righteousness comes from faith' therefore, it's through faith, not from or by.

Victor Trapani: I have a question, When I was younger in Jesus, I would meet a lot of other Christians and I would hear them talk about this exact thing about the grace of God, and even though they would tell me about it I would say I understood it, it never really clicked until 2 months ago, so I think it was Jesus Himself revealing it to me personally at the time when He chose to.

Stewart: All right whenever you say that, you also have to come back to the other side, it's also my spirit, pushing it out of you and saying, "don't listen to that" (yeah! yes!) How much of that was it too? (Yeah! Yes!) You know there are ways, different ways to look at it.

Stewart: I was selling righteousness comes from faith...therefore, it's "through faith," not: "from" or "by."

Brother 2: I remember I used to read a lot of Charles Spurgeon and he'd talk about grace, and I would just think, "Well it's 100 years later, Jesus has showed us more now,"

Stewart: uuugh!

Brother 3: I think he must be in error...ya know that's what I would, that's what I would think somehow, I would really wonder about what you would say about what he said there.

Stewart: How much is it I could clamor and I could gallop and skip along in my merry way and the brothers couldn't keep up with me. (a lot a whole lot) It was my merry way, that is in what I was doing wrong, don't forget also, Jesus used me a lot, (yes...sure) in spite, but it was in spite and if that isn't His grace, according to the bible, what is?

His kindness ya know. His grace was extended to us while we were enemies. Now, we must really get into grace (yeah yes), I mean really, try this saying, there is something to this: Now Grace, Faith and spirit, small s, these three abide, but the greatest of these is grace, small s, small S, eh..we'll have to get into that.

Wine is treacherous. Now here's what happens, let's take those three: Grace, Faith, and spirit, there's a lot of, ~ are you paying attention, (yes!) ~ there's all of churches overboard on spirit matters.

You now know of a church overboard on faith, there are in fact apparently, recently I have been inquiring, that there are some overboard on grace, to the extent that they, to the extent that they claim to do away with baptism, you know, you can be lopsided any way? (yeah)

Nevertheless those 3 exist: Grace , faith and spirit..all of them are important. And they have to be in the right balance. And they certainly haven't been here, and therefore I have no idea, I have no idea, in the light of the truth, I have no idea about other churches, you know I have to say that, I have no idea, because anyway I would have looked at them, would have been in error. Follow? (yes)

Spirit had better not be the basis, because it's just anything goes. Faith can't be the basis because then it's hard work. Grace is the basis. It's not on the basis of works but of grace. Grace must be the basis.

Anyways, Romans 10 "a zeal for God but it is not enlightened," speaking of the Jews, I have heard it said, am I some sort of Old Testament character, maybe there's something to that, being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God and seeking to establish their own, now, that had to be true of me, to some extent, partly the problem, ignorance, non-enlightened Samaritan doing both at once.

I began speaking about relying on Jesus. The big thing is that you have to remove the phony relying on faith before you could actually rely on Jesus. How much are you relying on Faith? (weak muttering) You see, in other words, here's another explanation. In some sense or other I have a framework somehow, that I can keep going, does that make any sense? That you don't have. I wasn't seeing grace,

I have heard it said, Am I some sort of Old Testament character maybe there's something to that, "being ignorant of the righteousness that comes from God and seeking to establish their own"....

Nevertheless I could include enough of it in some sort of pseudo-framework to ah..keep going..enough to ah seem right, got it? (yes) How can you rely on Jesus with some sort of "It's up to me" feeling? (can't) contradictory, now a double problem, yanking grace out of scripture, especially out of those three: Grace , faith and spirit, yank grace out, you've done 2 things, 2 problems. First, you've changed, by removing grace, what's left is changed, but it's also damaged. You can't yank something out of something without damaging what's left, it's, it's, there are two things, there's a vacuum, and there's damage. Do you follow? (yes) You can see that having happened.

Why did I teach you to rely on Jesus with some sort of "It's up to me" feeling (can't) contradictory, now a double problem, I yanked grace out of scripture, especially out of those three, grace, faith and spirit, I yanked grace out, I've done 2 things, 2 problems. First, I've changed, by removing grace, what's left is changed, but it's also damaged. I can't yank something out of something without damaging what's left, it's, it's there are two things: there's a vacuum and there's damage. Do you understand how I did this? (yes) You can see how I did this?

That is, violence has been done to faith and spirit too! And then, the actual wrong came in which is relying on faith, to the point (sighing) I was right, you are saved by faith, by the way that's in the summary, it's both. Twice, we are saved by faith, don't you people ever check your bible? (yes)

I wonder if you have more appreciation of the working of God's grace among us now? (yes) Grace enough to overcome this sin. Where sin abounds , grace abounds all the more. Shall we therefore sin, God knows that I did it in ignorance, I didn't plan this, I assume that you all know that (yes)

What about another explanation, as he said, without such a foundation, means that there is no framework, there is no sight of the framework, everything is sort of disconnected in a strange feeling kinda way, and every week it is a new direction and teaching and it isn't connected to the foundation, the basis which is grace, which is the way it must be, minus grace, all the good things are floating. And how do you ever tie them together? Well you couldn't, but I quote: could.

In some sort of a running on automatic pilot, do you start to get a picture? (yes) There's no confidence therefore, confidence is a Big word, big or 'as it is written' "how come they never marry?" For that one alone I repent, for that one alone, because you have to be like Stewart first (yeah), and the amazing marriage that He has given me, which is near, per..., not me, I'm far from perfect, in fact, Gayle is close to perfect, did you ever hear, I heard some of you people say, "She's not, she's like 'not human.'" (yes laughing)

That marriage itself is nothing but the grace of God, nothing but! In fact, she looked up and found, "He who finds a wife" It's very close, by the way.

Grace, what is grace? We'll have to get into that. (undeserved ..undeserved mercy)

Hold it, hold it, hold it! That is the stupidest thing there is, I say, with my fervent spirit: undeserved mercy! That is stupid to talk like that, because mercy is never mercy if it is deserved. So you're saying: mercy is mercy. When you're saying mercy is undeserved mercy, fix your brain, in order for, to be mercy, otherwise grace would no longer be grace, in order to be mercy, it can't be deserved, or it isn't mercy.

What is this stupid undeserved mercy, and that is what people say! (yeah yeah)

Listen, listen, it doesn't even make sense, just in words. Oh, maybe you do deserve some other kind of mercy, do you? (nooo) Well, what is this? Now think about it. You know I haven't lost my confidence, my confidence is in Jesus, now where it should have been all along but it wasn't and therefore I confidently will say that, what is this undeserved mercy? Get your head screwed on! Noo?! (yes) Now think about it...

Mercy is mercy is all yer saying, you don't get it? (yes..noo) If ah, rather ah, grace is mercy, yer saying grace is mercy, yer saying Grace equals mercy, and it doesn't. They are two different things. Grace is something, and it is certainly undeserved as all mercy is, or it wouldn't be mercy.

Now, anyway, anyway, um, anyway, what was I saying before about that, oh yeah, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor, now grace is close to favor, close, it's not, but that's approach, that's one of the words that are around grace, that you've found favor, that He has extended his grace, although the grace of God and the grace of Jesus Christ too, by the way, two different things, we gotta get into this.

See, somehow I got saved, and I still think I got saved, I still think I got saved. Did I get saved two weeks ago? Well, I think I have to say, I got saved 25 years ago (1964), I think, but that's another matter. I got saved or whatever, and right away, right away, ahh, again you know, there's another thing. I bought a bill of goods in a way, because what does everybody do? You get saved and then you go to church, and that's about it, anyway, ahh, something like that. I got saved and I lost interest in, that is, I don't remember doing it, I'm saying, I must have, something like lost interest in salvation. It was no longer interesting, now well it's over, I mean, ah, and I must have been acting something like that, perhaps having bought that, picked that up, who knows, anyway, that's something, in that area. I got saved or whatever, and right away, right away, ahh, again you know, there's another thing. I bought a bill of goods in a way, because what does everybody do? You get saved and then you go to church, and that's about it, anyway, ahh, something like that.

Well all right, it's no longer interesting, so now I'll get in the Old Testament, now I'll start interpreting, and that's what happened. It was a process, in the process, since, and I got into interpreting this and interpreting that and and Matthew 24, meanwhile the most important teaching of all, salvation, and the most important part of the most important teaching was nowhere. And nobody noticed. Now, in a nutshell, that's a process, since, do ya follow? (yes) That's partly what happened.

Yes, ah, Gayle thought studying Matthew 24 would do that, over the years, how many secretly dreaded it because fear: "I could loose my salvation, with such an extreme testing, will I make it?" (Yeah! yeah! yes!) It's up to me. (voices in response) and you know, it's the brothers, again, that may, that particular one maybe even worse with the sisters, perhaps, there feeling reaction to it might be worse, but ya know it's still the brothers. If, if our life is based on works, that faith becomes works somehow, that's just it, that's more telling on the brothers, and it's the brothers therefore that, um, that's why I have been speaking of the brothers being set free, think it's true? (yes)...

Without grace you're on a 'crossing your fingers' basis. I asked a while ago. "Are you trying to talk Jesus into saving you?" Remember? (yes) Trying to convince him into saving you. (yes) My goodness, ya know, the whole while, I never tried to take Jesus' place, in no way and would always speaking against it, and yet that's what the devil arranged, now think about it, something like that in effect. Without grace the chain of how everything connects to Jesus is broken.

So all becomes mysterious, grace is meant to be the, the uh, framework, format, I'm saying "salvation is a gift while under the counter you have to earn it by faith."Why don't the brothers marry, because they have no confidence. Why don't they have confidence? Because of their impossible task, what do you think of that brothers? (yes yeah makes a lot of sense)...

Brother 4: Many of the ones that are married, their marriages aren't very good because of the same problem...

Stewart: Faith has become almost an end in itself, how's that? (yes) one of the translations calls it 'the instrument' 'the tool' by the way, I wonder, Gayle? ya know there are of course a lot of salvation tracts floating around, you pick em up right? (yes) Are they all the very same thing? (pretty much) That It's faith, faith, faith, that it's never grace? (nooo, it's grace, yeah grace) huh? There is grace? (yeah yes yeah) Well, I picked one up, I saw one yesterday, it was zero grace or a few days ago, there certainly must be grace.

Brother 5: Isn't even the King James text, doesn't it say something the word it, don't they say, "It is through grace you are saved by faith?

Stewart: Yeah, same thing, that's Revised (R.S.V.), same thing, (no, no, it's by grace) Say again, say again, I can't hear ya?

Brother 5: I thought the kings James Version as I have seen it on those tracts. said. “By Grace you have been saved through faith, the KJV (wait, wait, you changed it, you said it differently the first time Adrian)

Stewart: It says: "by" I'll bet ya, it says "by grace, through faith." (right) Faith is the lesser and Grace is the greater, doesn't matter what translation, (yeah) that'll comeout. Grace is the basis, all the faith in the world and if He doesn't extend His grace, now, that's jumping the gun, without grace as the basis. 'Be zealous to confirm your call and election' becomes trying to convince Jesus to save you (yes), because the fact that nobody is picking up on grace, and you haven't been, you haven't been picking upon it. The fact that nobody's been picking up on it, as much as I have already gone into it, shows how deeply everyone is into "Faith, it's up to me," etcetera, instilled in, think a that, there is no receiving His grace with thanksgiving, which is almost the basis of Christian life. Christian Life, that's right. Where's orange? Now, no grace. Does the word grace appear anywhere, just the word, let alone, I'll bet it doesn't. Things we looked at, it doesn't.

We got a long way to go, people, are you getting restless? (noooo) Notice there is a lot of running out (yes, maybe take a 10 minute break) It's 5:00 now. We can either keep going or take a break or break for supper (breakup 10min, go for a while why don't we take a vote, go till supper?

Well, well, we could take a vote, remembering that for freedom (everyone together) Christ has set us free (thank you Jesus) what's the rest though (everyone) Stand fast therefore and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.) To a Yoke of..? (slavery)To a yoke of salvation by faith "quote" "works." Are the brothers starting to realize how Jesus is starting to set all of US! free? (yeees) How many are only starting to? (just a little) How many think they half understand it pretty much? Well, that's, that's getting there. Now let's vote on the break or keep going. Keep going, such as, I mean, I don't want to dwell on me, but ah, up to a point it's important, the way I have operated, my spirit, what God is doing with me. How He's been leading me, and then finally, the right view and balance that's a big one. What is the right, what is right then? Well, starting that and about grace and other smaller things. Or should we take a break? (take a break) Or should we take supper? (supper) Now what is God's will? (supper, I think it's God's will to keep going,)(Why don't we take a vote?)

Stewart: You see, when you sing 'Amazing Grace' doesn't really hit you huh? (yes it, no) Take a vote on it then (yes) How many say we break for supper now? How many say we take a 10 minute break? How many say no break and no supper? (laughter). Well, it's pretty obvious that most want a break. (yes) Right? (yes) So, everybody vote on a 10 minute break or a supper break (yeah) is supper ready?

Vinnie: Yeah, if were gonna have a break I think it should be for supper, because if we go on to 7:00 its, ahh, it makes things, hard, the food will be getting messed up. (laughter)

Stewart : Okay, you ready? How is that pure Vinnie and our fellowship? Well, life and actions are to be interpreted in terms of the nearest circumstance only and we must act on the basis of the closest circumstance, never raise up our eyes into the context of greater things, ahh now supper is pretty great that's true but, but, (laughter) there maybe even greater things, pitiful little "it's gonna get messed up." (laughter) Take courage Vinnie! Take courage (laughter) see I'm strengthening the brothers! (laughter) Take courage.

Vinnie: stupid thing I said.

Brother: (to Vinnie) Don't worry

Stewart: Listen ah, let's all vote on a 10 minute break or a supper break. Are we all ready? (yes) How many say a supper break now? (clamor) Well, and how many say a 10 minute break? well they lost (laughing). Well, since it's everybody and I don't know a reason why to do otherwise..maybe a supper break..we can agree on that then( yes) what do you think? (yes) what do you think about this meeting? (praise God thank you Jesus) Never would have thought of it... (nooo)

Denny Dennison: I always thought that we consciously, as a fellowship, never got into grace, because of the potential to take advantage, which I always saw in the other churches.

Stewart: Hey, there's a huge potential to take advantage, but tough luck, that is the route we must go, (yes) cuz that's the bible route. That is, yes there is a huge potential, we'll have to get into that, you never would have thought this, it's a big surprise (yes)

Brother 6: yeah, we went to see a brothers last night in Brighton Beach

Stewart: Can't hear a word yer mumbling...

Brother 6: Okay, we went to see some brothers in Brighton Beach last night and I remembering saying "Yo, Jesus Stewart Jesus has been saving him too.

Stewart: Already did, at least two weeks ago! (thank you Jesus) His grace is greater than my shame or my error (thank you Jesus...yeah praise God) the next time you're afraid to make a mistake, because you’re afraid to, in sincerity, do what really looks ruuu what really looks right, really checked..ah really looks right. His grace, if, if ya are wrong, His grace is greater anyway (thank you Jesus) TWENTY FIVE YEARS OF ERROR? You try to beat that (laughter) 25 years of colossal error....

Brother 7: I read about..

Stewart: This is no little point..(yeah) Sonya says I should expound on grace more, remember? That's the answer, Taloola, you're the one, expound on grace more, he ha, that's the answer huh? My! It's an awful lot more than that, this mortal sin, I thought that was a big deal. I made a mistake, I did. Ha! I thought that I was, I bought a bill of goods. That was awful, but that wasn't even the tip of the iceberg, remember that? (yes) Once in a lifetime bible study, I called it, remember? (yes) Oh my goodness. It is very very hard, a month from now you try to picture somebody, actually being oblivious to grace, and is fervent in Jesus as I have been and put that together, a month from now, you try and figure that out, impossible, which leads you to wonder, God purposely made me blind to it "so I am not responsible" (Stewart in a mocking tone) purposely made me blind to it, etc, but ah, needs to understand when I said I'm glad it's that bad because it's proof, It's my written evidence, what I already know in my spirit, that I didn't do it, I did it in ignorance, there’s the proof, it's not there.

If it was half there messed up, that might make me wonder, so I’m glad it's that bad, it's zero, you don’t get it huh? (yeas) A lot more to it, what do you think about this (thank you Jesus...) later we will have to discuss your forgiveness of me or the lack of it, that's a subject. Now are we all ready to pray together? (yes)

Brother 7: It's gonna take a while to digest.

Brother 8: For me, it shows how much Jesus loves you fiercely.

Stewart: Boy, that is my hope right there, it is said, "He has become my salvation" that I dare trust him, what He has done for me, even through this.

Brother 9: Seems to me, like a beginning, a beginning of a better relationship with Jesus and with each other(yes)

Stewart: Based on the sufficiency of His grace (thank you Jesus).

Lauren Albrecht: I'm not sure but I, I heard that the man that wrote or that Jesus gave the words to 'Amazing Grace' that he was a Christian for a long time and came to the realization that he was on the wrong basis, and that...

Stewart: Really?

Lauren: God gave him the words, that God marked him with 'Amazing Grace'

Brother 10: There's a little more than that..

Stewart: Is that right?

Brother 11: Actually, he was a seafarer, and he dealt in slavery, he was a Christian and he backslid very grossly and he came back to God and the last part of his life, he was extremely faithful, and close to Jesus but he used to deal in slavery.

Bobby Whipple: He was, He was in a very serious, He was in the Church of England, they thought he committed apostasy, they told him he was finished and ah, because of all the sins that he chose, serious sin, he was into when he was in Africa,

Brother 11: Drinking and slavery.

Bobby: Then he uh called out to, he did call out to God and Jesus forgave him and that's why he wrote the song, 'Amazing Grace' (Wow! Thank you, Jesus!)

Stewart: So, you see, he, he, again, you know, we gotta change everything. He called out to God, he put his faith in God's grace..

Bobby: yeah

Stewart: and then called out to God, is what yer saying (yeah yeah) And he knew that that's what he was was doing then, same as me. Let's hear some more brothers and sisters.

Brother 12 : I know when I was backsliden it seems ah, the times when I could see Grace most clearly in fact, ah pretty much the only times that I considered it was when I was the very most out of it..with the noose around my neck and the rope broke

Brother 13: physically

Brother12 : I considered his grace a lot more than I considered my faith at that point

Stewart: that makes sense

Brother 14: I saw God's grace when He made me trust him with 3 children....and I ...will continue

Stewart: (whispering) that's His mercy...

Brother 15: I think that God has let this happen this long....and what is His plan for us(yeah yes..muttering thank you Jesus)

Bob Muller: It is his grace that brought us safe thus far...(and grace Will bring me home...praise God ..thank you Jesus)

Stewart: You don't have the view that Salvation is over and done with..?(starting to..starting to now..muttering) Right kind of view of that... Otherwise Grace would no longer be grace...

Stewart: Now, you must understand, I'm not a fraud. I'm not a phony. I'm not a Jim Jones as they say. I'm not a false teacher. What I am is a poor one. I said I was glad, glad, that it's this bad. Job said, "Make me know how I have erred." He said, "If only God would write the indictment, I'd be proud of it."Well, I didn't, He didn't have to write the indictment, I did. Furthermore, the way, I was reading a while ago that bad memory that I'm extremely having..I was reading that this is due to stress and what was the other one? stress and something like that. Job said, "Make me know how I have erred." Also, "Those who err in spirit will come to understanding. We'll have to get into, somehow it's my spirit, somehow I erred in spirit. before erring in words. But um, oh yes, I'm glad, I'm glad that it's that bad, trying to put in why, because it is written proof to my sanity that indeed I did it in ignorance. That is, I can see, had I had I tried to deceive, I wonder if I could have done it as well. I tried to remove grace this well, leave no traces, tried to make some weird thing, which I , even I can't say I did, when I see how well it is done. that uh..that's the reason that I have received mercy. right there. It is that I did it in ignorance. colossal eh colossal thing that is that "sin abounds, grace abounds all the more. The subject to which I was oblivious for 25 years while getting more of it all the time. This subject, my error, was the subject of grace. We'll get into that later.

Stewart: The Language....but uh shows all the more that it's by His grace that He shows me, no one else did. Only He could have, I couldn't, I didn't. The fact that He showed me and at this point in time. You say breaking down, you don't know how badly I was breaking down. At this point in time when He's clearly uh rescuing us all, He rescued me. I mean rescued. I wonder if "petering" I wonder. I was petering out. I wonder if that word actually means, actually comes from Peter's problem which is my problem. partly.

Stewart : All these things, these ills, from the brothers at least, are made worse by me, everyone of them.

Brother: All of them?

Stewart: All these things, I think everything. Maybe everything. But certainly a lot and at least I've been making it worse. Well, His grace toward me. The fact that I, that I can exist... you know, you may not have thought of it yet, He could have rescued, He could have wiped me out and rescued the church very easily. He could've anyone. I was oblivious. I don't know how it could happen. But in fact, you knew it, I was oblivious to grace. It's one of the two. I was oblivious to grace or have totally being, total deceiver the whole while. It's one of the two. When you read, do you understand, that we looked in this book and cannot find the word grace, except in the middle of of Faith in your Salvation, quotes the verse, "For by grace are you saved" and that makes it worse yet and and totally oblivious to it everywhere else......what?

Andrew: and then it's all us got to have got to have faith

Stewart: Faith has become, so-called faith has become everything. Therefore, it's on me. We'll get into, "I could take it, the brothers couldn't" I could take it for longer. that's all.

Brother: well I tell ya I seen grace at work in my life and in a lot of us when I rededicated, I knew it was nothing I did and with a lot of brothers who returned I could see it was a big example of God's grace, Him doing that, I think specifically to show His grace that He has on us. I think about that a lot. ( voices in agreement)

Stewart: I have not been acknowledging His grace. Not in my, not in my own life. Not making it known. Still can't believe that I did it. I have to of course. While we're on the subject. When did I ever speak on the subject of my sinfulness? (murmurs of " I would say never, never really")

Brother: I remember you telling us once that if we lived inside your body for a minute we would go crazy.

Stewart: Did I? (yeah, yes)

Brother: I remember you saying a few times that "I was the worst one among you."

Stewart: Yeah, I said it a thousand times. I'm no better. But nobody believed it. (right right, that you had so much faith) "Because I have so much faith, because I can take it. heh. uh... I said a thousand times I'm no better. But somehow my spirit is selling that I'm sinless.(yeah, yeah true) therefore the brothers must be sinless like Stewart and everything will be alright. (right, right) and many such things, many such proofs. I have a boxful now. Along with a last little pack at the end, "Maybe it wouldn't have mattered anyway." That is a, a it perverse or is it something else? It's now that it really matters. The older brothers. How much difference would it have made. That's a good question. Try try anyway with your next 18 year old. one would think it doesn't matter what you say. However, be that as it may, it's with the older brothers that uh, it becomes extreme.

Cut 2 Stewart: When did you hear me say much at all on the subject of repentance?( voices mixed)

Brother: It always seemed up to us. We had to do it. Grace wasn't talked about in repentance.( voices, "I might be mistaken but I think quite a bit," perhaps he's talking about repentance

Stewart: I think I've repented more in the last 2 weeks and then 2 months and then a hundred times more than eh than everythi everything else put together until I wondered what has been going on. y'know I, I am given to dramatic exaggerations to make a point. I'm not exaggerating. I am not exaggerating. We as a church to this moment, and that's another one, when, where, and how did we become a church, if we ever did, when where and how does any church become a church if and when it does? And for that matter, Where, when, and how if there is a where, when, and how is someone born again or are they saved? A lot of this is ah...We have to redo everything...from the bottom up. And that is no exaggeration. Grace is much more important than faith. And that was completely turned around. And more than that. We as a church to this moment have no appreciation of grace.

Stewart: We as a church to this moment, and that's another one, when, where, and how did we become a church, if we ever did, when, where, and how does any church become a church if and when it does? And for that matter, Where, when, and how if there is a where, when, and how is someone born again or are they saved? A lot of this is ah...We have to redo everything...from the bottom up

Stewart Traill, are you actually asking a room full of children of God, those for whom Christ died, those who could tell you the year and the month, even the day they received forgiveness and cleansing and the indwelling of the Spirit of God, you are actually asking them......where, when, and how is someone born again? or saved. And you have gall to add.."we have to REDO everything?

PAUL: Ahh I started wondering,...About ten years ago, when i first prayed to Jesus with Brothers and Sisters that day.And I know that inside, I felt a huge change, a big change in my life and ahh did aask God for His Holy Spirit and ah..always thought, I'd been born again from that point and now , I'm like, ya know, there have been alot of times over those ten years that i have rebelled against Him. and done alot of wrong things against Him.

STEW: you , you were not born again. you have deceived yourself. As it is written "little children, let no one deceive you."you have deceived yourself or did some character deceive you?

PAUL: thats what i'm trying to put my things together

STEW: Whatever , Whatever.Understand that you were not born again. If you testify that you sinned, forget it. You are testifying against yourself. By the words and the mind of the the apostles, you were not."

Stewart: We as a church to this moment, and that's another one, when, where, and how did we become a church, if we ever did, when, where, and how does any church become a church if and when it does? And for that matter, Where, when, and how if there is a where, when, and how is someone born again or are they saved? A lot of this is ah...We have to redo everything...from the bottom up

Stewart: Look at this. I practically said what it was and what you heard the last 2 months and you still didn't go to, grace is the problem.(coughing) Haven't you looked in these books lately and noticed there's no grace?(yeah, no no) with all the grace talk (sounded so good) What sounded so good?(you know something something that's) How many did, by the way, and didn't say it? How many of you thought, the problem is grace? There is no grace. y'didn't say it.

Brother: I thought I thought I thought it was, grace was different because there's been more emphasis. (he already said that)

Denny: The way I was looking at it was, I was looking at it, I was looking at more from the place of I thought you were getting more of an appreciation for grace but it never dawned on me that we

Stewart: more of an appreciation (That's what I thought)( I never really thought that) Listen, Listen, Gayle's only language is a while ago God woke me up. It was that bad. He woke me up. And rescued me. And he has in fact, (sigh) and uh, that's hope (that you can see) Grace is the foundation. Jesus Christ himself is the foundation but the next thing on is grace. So he is the foundation on Jesus. Grace is the founda, building on Jesus, grace immediately. And this teaching is a house built on sand. Not the church, the hou, the teaching is built on sand. And the teaching has come to nothing. It is based on error and contains error, contains appalling errors. Flat statements contrary to the gospel, flat contrary. I can be bitter toward all my friends as Job of course. But, having his lesson, I haven't been impatient. You know it's been hard for me to say anything to you people for 10 days, knowing all this, not wanting to start things wrongly. And 2 months previously and longer that God was waking me up. I sat here at the last meeting at the end noticing that I was unable to put together grace, election, sanctification, unable to speak of these things. The great teacher unable.

Stewart: And this teaching is a house built on sand. Not the church, the hou, the teaching is built on sand. And the teaching has come to nothing. It is based on error and contains error, contains appalling errors. Flat statements contrary to the gospel, flat contrary. I can be bitter toward all my friends as Job of course."

Stewart: Very hard for me to to uh believe it. Gayle found this verse in scripture, won't tell you where, look it up later. It's about Apollos, who went around with Paul. Apollos was was teaching about Jesus, quite accurately and with a fervent spirit but he was in error. Pricilla , Aquila took him aside and they told him the real story and then those who had received grace heard him gladly. (murmur of assent wow...) Indicating that, indicating that it may have been the very same thing. Those who had received grace heard him gladly. Now do you remember that verse? (yeah) Don't bother now, in fact, FORGET YOUR BIBLES, pay attention. I'm the lesson today, not the Bible. I myself am the lesson. So learn a lesson. His fervent spirit, his fervent spirit was and some accuracy yes and he was well versed in the scriptures. I used to be maybe. And he went with his fervent spirit in the synagogue, in the synagogue he went around insisting on Jesus but apparently uh devoid of grace. Apparently oblivious, indicating maybe that was the problem. Certainly oblivious to something. And then those who had received grace afterwards heard him gladly. And later he was as follows

Stewart:"It's about Apollos, who went around with Paul. Apollos was was teaching about Jesus, quite accurately and with a fervent spirit but he was in error."

Stewart: Pricilla , Aquila took him aside and they told him the real story and then those who had received grace heard him gladly. (murmur of assent wow...) Indicating that, indicating that it may have been the very same thing."

Stewart: His fervent spirit, his fervent spirit was and some accuracy yes and he was well versed in the scriptures. I used to be maybe.(Stewart never misses an opportunity to self deprecate, it's how he reminds the brethren of how good he is even when he is evil) And he went with his fervent spirit in the synagogue, in the synagogue he went around insisting on Jesus but apparently uh devoid of grace. Apparently oblivious, indicating maybe that was the problem. Certainly oblivious to something. And then those who had received grace afterwards heard him gladly. And later he was as follows"

Stewart: For 25 years? Was it? By the way. To your shame, well, they didn't really. I walked in here and I actually said..and nobody threw up. I actually said, "Can't you rely on your faith?" That's worse than saved by faith. Now you're even relying on it, it's everything. You rely on your faith. How many of you said, you didn't , you didn't say it, but you thought "that is wrong!" Let's hear it! How many said, that is wrong, Let's Hear It! Up or Down! What did you say Bob?

Bob: I thought it was wrong cuz we just had a lesson on relying on Jesus. but

Stewart: What is, what is the use of all these lessons? These lessons are accomplishing nothing. It's my fervent spirit that's doing everything. You're not listening to the lessons even as far as they do go. You do what I do. I say "don't smoke" but I smoke so what do you do?(smoke). It's nothing but God's grace that which I was oblivious which has brought us thus far, nothing but. It's all the more clear. Even with that error of that magnitude, so that the deepest possible error. I can't believe that no other Christians, I can't believe that no other Christians, an error of that magnitude, could not be spotted. I can't believe it. But there it is. Where is grace? Faith in His promise. Where is grace? Yes, the concept is good. And in fact all the better, 12 ways to practice, that's all the better, that word. Because that's what this is practicing. Now the real use of faith..that's something else.

Cut 3

Stewart: That's something else. These are indeed, 12 ways to practice where they, where they properly...speaking of grace and the other matters. But the real use of grace, and the real use of faith rather is in believing and in walking by faith that we are God's chosen and elect and that His grace is given to us. We have to get into this and thereby..grace is first, faith is second. We are saved by grace not by faith. We're saved through faith. Faith is necessary. But faith is the basis. Now of course it's ruined. I wonder. I might as well say it (I'll just go ahead) If you took this book to all the, to the uh bible schools, would they say this is good? I, I, I'm appalled to say I think they would. I think they would buy it. It is written with a fervent spirit and is saying good and right things. The word "subtle"...this is nothing but the work of the devil. Period, nothing but. It is so subtle, so beautiful and perfect. Wish I coulda done that well. Wish I was that good. I'm not. Therefore, who has saved us all these years? (Jesus! by grace, by His grace)

Stewart: The word "subtle"...this is nothing but the work of the devil. Period, nothing but. It is so subtle, so beautiful and perfect. Wish I coulda done that well. Wish I was that good. I'm not. Therefore, who has saved us all these years? (Jesus! by grace, by His grace)

Stewart: And you have this feeling Stewart is saving us. That's what you have, your feeling( voices of accent) somehow. One of the last.....I was handing out these comments about the, this meeting, y'know I hand 'em out, one a day. The last one, I didn't hand out was, "I wish the the uh Christian movie Hollywood cameras could be here for this meeting." to uh make a movie of this meeting. ya think?(yeah)The rest of it was, the rest of the saying was "I've worked very hard for this meeting and I deserve it" (right) and that was going to be the card. Well I have worked very hard. I grew weary with hard doing. Even I grew weary. Sin began showing up in my behavior. Poor Gayle, had to bear the brunt of it. And toward all of you. How was I behaving toward you?

Stewart: And toward all of you. How was I behaving toward you?

Brother: A cruel father like

Stewart: Let's hear it. A year, 6months, two years? 5 years? Can't figure it out huh?(no) There's a lot of good practical things in here, they helped you a lot if only the basis were there. In fact, If only the false basis weren't there and the right one was. If somebody were trying to avoid grace but still trying to make something look accurate, I wonder how much better they coulda done? Maximum accuracy minus grace. If you're gonna try that, I wonder how you could do much better? If that were the goal, I don't think I could have done that well. There is an amazing space where amazing grace should have been. (yeah, some laughter). There really is. And we used to sing that(yeah)back in 137. I am appalled at the whole thing.

Stewart: of this you have heard before and the word of truth, the gospel which has come to you as indeed in the whole world, it is bearing fruit and growing so among yourselves. From the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth. Understood?! I never, I never knew it. Literally. I was totally oblivious. Totally oblivious. I know I did it in ignorance. Can you believe that?(mixed voices) find hard to believe it is,(ST voice louder) the amazing thing, God has done amazing things through me for you! many many many, every one of them was only His grace! It wasn't me at all. In fact, it was in spite of me. Now think of that for (unclear). You couldn't do much better on a Grace Hollywood movie. And is there someone more sincere than me? Maybe, maybe not.

Stewart: Now, what in me could ever, Is it something in me, I, I assume. Why did God allow that? Is it dawning on you that I have been oblivious, grace doesn't exist, doesn't exist. You never heard me speak it did you?( no, no , not until recently)

Brother: beginning to Stewart: what? Brother: different!

Stewart: different heh.(laughter)

Brother: Seems a lot more fair to me that really is Grace is the basis and I haven't been living according to that.

Stewart: Let's hear it (it's gonna take time) a week at the most (laughter) However (laughter) However, what's needed is starting all over again(yes)God has consigned all of us, that he might have mercy on all and error. We're gonna pray together, Lord willing. Now how are we gonna pray together?(mixed voices, the words by his grace and mercy and salvation are heard) You know it's almost against the uh scripture almost, that all that you do, do in thankfulness for the grace that you've received. You realize that? All that you do, do in thankfulness for the grace that you have received. Not hoping to earn something. Are we ready to pray together? (yes)

Stewart: Thank you Jesus (thank you Jesus) So how's your shock value people? (mixed voices..."it's getting less")On the other hand some of you were well on your way, 25 years of no grace. No appreciation of grace. you know it's been 10 days now that I've realized that, 10 days and I am shocked as ever, still total shock. I don't see how I could have done that. I keep saying that, I don't know how I could have done it but I did it. How very very hard to believe, but there you have it. Now uh, however why don't we get into instead of uh...What we need to do is redo everything uh..redo our lives as individuals and as a fellowship so that everything is firmly based on grace.(thank you Jesus)Now face it. It hasn't been. That is God's grace has been working for us but eh our lives and and uh fellowship has not been based on grace at all. So, how do we do it, easier said than done.(yes)Any suggestions?You know something we gotta start? Bible studies such as we had 20 years ago, now what was it like Gayle?

Gayle: Where we would all fellowship together in trying to understand God's will and not be assuming Stewart knows everything and just sitting there waiting for him to show us.(murmur of assent "right, I agree").

Stewart: Now how do you like that.. Bob Whipple was there Neil was there.. There was not the assumption that Stewart knows everything.

Bob: right we had We would all get together at 137,and Jesus would show us things and we'd be all get in there, Jesus would be showing brother Stewart things...

Stewart: Harold? Where's Harold? Is he here?

Harold: yeah

Stewart: See Harold was there.(yep) We used to have bible studies and that one little house was all we had(yep)and,

Bob: we were all involved, it wasn't always Brother Stewart we were all given our opinions, what we thought it meant and everything, and y'know Jesus was using all of us together.

Stewart: That is God's grace has been working for us but eh our lives and and uh fellowship has not been based on grace at all. So, how do we do it, easier said than done.(yes)Any suggestions?You know something we gotta start? Bible studies such as we had 20 years ago, now what was it like Gayle?

Stewart: I was starting from scratch at that time and that's what I'm doing now. How do you like that?(wow, thank you Jesus)what was I saying just humanly, just humanly alone, try that, and you're 53 and you say "well yes, the last 25 years, come to think of it, I was all wrong, okay, I'll start all over again. Just try that. At 53, just in anything human. However that's the state, and it's not human, infinite way way eternal and yet that's what's needed. I and everyone must start over and in fact a bunch a backsliders all the more(yeah)therefore, therefore, and another thing maybe it wouldn't have mattered actually we running out of these books anyway so it's (laughter)

Stewart: Everybody asks, "How's your relationship with Jesus?" You ask that all the time, right, to each other? (yeah) And you immediately follow it with, "Is it based on his grace?" Right? (no, no then pledges to change that) Is relationship with God based on His grace?(hesitating...yess)How do you know?..heheh at this point. well alright by faith...however that's what you gotta ask. And that's what you gotta be looking for, actually more, looking for what it means...How do you see the grace of God? How do you know if someone is based on the grace of God or whatever?

Stewart then goes to his method. "This is what you gotta ask"....YOU MUST DO THIS TO EACH OTHER...this is what you are looking for.....Okay, now Stewart, you are getting the brethren to look for proof that their relationship is based on grace....great...that's all we need is another weapon to use on each other. Isn't grace wonderful? Stewart, the drop-out scientist, has all the beakers bubbling..testing theories, "hmmm how does grace work, what does it look like, how do you know when you are under it or it's on you or if you are given it and how much grace does God give, what is the exact measure?" "we need to get into this" you see that nothing has changed. Devoid of the Spirit, devoid of the wisdom of God, and yet let's let him continue.

Brother: Because the kindness of your life. How He shows you and gives you things and does things in your life and it's nothing that you do, it's that He does it for you.

Stewart: Okay but eh, our fellowship must be in grace, by the way, uh why not instead of calling these backslider's meetings, why not call them "Grace" meetings (yeah Thank you Jesus) Do you realize that we're saved by grace(yep) and kept by grace(yeah) What does it mean, "My grace is sufficient for you"? That means you get all you need. (yeah, yep) He gives more grace to the humble. Remember that, therefore he gives more grace(yeah yes)We are saved and kept. That's going to be very obvious. Yes, you don't want to accept that I too make mistakes and really serious ones because.... if you don't have to face that then you don't have to trust Jesus, because I'm perfect, you just trust me (yeah)see? Same old thing. You don't want to accept , see what's going on, after that last session? That's part of what's going on. You don't want to accept what?

Bobby: I saw myself in other words when you when you ah you know when you told and said the truth about yourself, I was shocked because uh I was more trusting you and uh trusting all uh but uh rather than relying on Jesus to show me things. more trusting that you would show me things I think that's the reason I acted that way. yknow shocked shocked y'know

Stewart: It started out as Jesus showing you things through me(right)But then what did it turn into?(you, "Stewart told us", "Stewart said", Brother Stewart rather than Jesus)

Brother: It did start out with Jesus...... through you and um just taking for granted and uh getting into uh just trusting that you'll tell us what to do

Stewart: So then scriptures aren't the authority, Stewart is. (right) On the other hand, these lessons, all the loose pieces, that's what this is, all the loose pieces floating around with no grace to to uh unify uh if the loose pieces floating around are that good, what would it be with the real basis?(murmur of enthusiasm). where where uh ya don't have to stop every minute and say "well how does this connect to that and how does this connect to that and you gotta hold all these things in your head at once to make any sense out of it? ya'know what I mean?(yes) You need grace. Living accordingly ,that's another thing, according to God's grace as our basis. Whole new ball game, what did I say it'd be after this meeting?(whole new ball game).

Stewart: "It started out as Jesus showing you things through me."

Stewart: Now, somebody mentioned back there that grace is a chance to take advantage. Remember earlier? (yes) It sounds scary because it's a chance eh certainly is and there's no question about it and that is the danger and wine is treacherous and salvation by works is a drag.(that's true, that's right , laughter) Therefore grace, faith and spirit. The problem with grace is take advantage and the classical with with grace, the classical with the grace problem is "once saved always saved" and "anything goes" That's the classic case and problem. spirit, well, you name it, wine is treacherous and the spirit is mad and well that could be ahh...there's a lot of wild spirit talk. You know what can happen and with ah faith again... own too much faith..(works)now the truth is all three are rightly put together by Jesus. All three are there. And there are problems with going overboard on on everyone of them.

Now it is true that with grace, the ah, the potential to take advantage is there. That's why earlier, I was saying that if you have to error, better to error the way I did. You don't get it? (yes) You don't get it, huh? (yes) Of the three, take advantage, (that's horrible) just take advantage of wuh..."I just say I'm sorry and move on" ah, that's our basis, which is uh obviously, that's horrible, and how about: wild spirit talk, just whatever. had to even defined (confusing) chaos, total, anything.

It's been bad enough, but now the idea is to make it right in all three. Now the chance, the uh, uh grace gives us the chance to take advantage, there's no way around it. and you'll hear, you see a lot about that, hear and see a lot and and you realize it already? (yes) Grace says, our salvation is already finished. We already have it. There's nothing left. There is nothing to work for. He said, "It is finished" and, that's it, it's all over.

The problem is, how do you react to it. Now, His chosen, the elect, are so thankful that they have this salvation guaranteed, that they react in thankfulness; while the others react, you name it. But the real ones appreciate and wouldn't dream of taking advantage and are so thankful for the easy basis. Thereby prove who we are.

Starting to make sense to you (yeah!) We oughta get into this whole pack here called, called: The Beginning of a right view and balance.

I'll just read thru these things, a lot of notes, and we gotta study em..sitting up.

On the one hand, once saved always saved.

On the other hand, going round and round "Am I going to earn salvation by my faithfulness?" Now God ke, grace is the key to the right approach, the right balance.

How do we arrive at the right balance between security in our salvation and our need and responsibility to walk by faith, and led by God's Spirit.

And it really is God's Spirit, not me having fun.

Now, how do we arrive at the right balance. "Right" in quotation marks, what God calls "right" which means security in our salvation, a need and responsibility to walk by faith, and being led by God's Spirit. (all three).

And here's another point that ah may sound strange, another thing will grow upon you. It isn't how faithful you are, it isn't how well you use your faith, that isn't the, ah, the most important thing is whether you have faith or not.

Everyone, everyone who has faith is justified. Are you aware of that? While we're on the subject, let me tell you another one. However much I have sold this one, now what a shame, Faith now what a shame. Faith is a seed. much did, pathetic. Faith is not a seed. However, much did, did I sell that one (yes, seed of faith). Faith is not a seed. The truth is, the bible says, that we were assigned a measure of faith, each, much did, pathetic.

Faith is not a seed. However, much did, did I sell that one (yes, seed of faith).

Faith is not a seed. The truth is, the bible says, that we were assigned a measure of faith, each of us, long ago. We were assigned a measure of faith, a certain amount.

And, His chosen ones, my sheep hear my voice, they react to His call by faith automatically.

We have it, not all men have faith, but, all His chosen do.

You have faith and when you hear the gospel, you respond to it by faith, thereby beginning to prove who you are. While the others, "it did not meet with faith in the hearers and it was of no benefit to them." We're gonna have to get into that.

That's one of the, one of the bases of telling who you are.

Do you have faith? Are you of those who still have faith or have you lost it?

Now, you gotta decide. We are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but have faith, have it.

We're justified by believing in Jesus. And we continue to be justified by faith.

Now, here's a statement, something like this. By the measure of faith that was assigned us long ago we respond to His call to come to Him and receive our measure of grace, perhaps we already received it. So receive grace which is always sufficient for us.

Then by our faith we begin to realize that we are His chosen and elect. And this faith leads us to follow Him then. Not to earn salvation, but as the normal result of salvation that has already been seen to exist and is further seen through faith. Now something like that. We're gonna find out.

I wonder the more evangelical a church is the more imbalance there is. Wonder if that's the rule. The price of fervency and evangelism is, is error. I wonder if that is ah, that's just one to consider.

"Free" is a grace word, one of the words around grace, "free." And being set, "free is a grace word: being set free by and through grace, is one of the fundamentals.

We were set free by grace. Does that ring a bell? ( yeah) not really (murmuring) not really okay not really. But these will grow on you. Being set free by and through grace. For freedom Christ has set you free and don't use it to take advantage. Nevertheless he has set us free and it's over and done with. And we will prove who we are, if we value what he's done.

The truth is we must be led by His Spirit to walk by faith in His saving grace. that's the sentence putting them together. The truth is we must be led by His Spirit, to walk by faith in His saving grace. Grace is the basis, but faith is how we operate. The gospel is the statement, Romans is the explanation, and the letters are the application.

Yeah ya come from grace in interpreting the New Testament, something I never did, try to interpret the New Testament.

Now that I mention it, now I'm being double cautious now, but uh, the olive tree has something to do with grace. Whether it is Jesus, ah, grace working through Jesus, we are the branches, there's some connection in some way. We're gonna have to look for that. All that you do, do out of thankfulness that He has called you, justified you, supplied you with faith, and that you are His chosen, if you see these things are true in you. That is, "has He called you?" "has He justified you and given you faith? (murmuring) That right there is is proof that we are the elect then. We have to go into various ones of these and find them all, so that we have confidence, real confidence and no false confidence, yeah: faith in His promise and it doesn't even mention grace, heh?

By grace, His making a way and His decision, those are grace, ah parts of what grace is.

What is grace? That's a hard one. We have some ah, dictionaries here, we could go into. Is it more correct to say "relying on God's grace" then "relying on God?" or vice versa? We have to find out. How do you rely on Him except for His gift basis. Now grace something like a gift basis. Some connection, some way. While I'm on it.

I still can't believe I walked in here and I actually even spelled it out, I actually pushed it and said, "Is it wrong to rely on faith. Is it wrong to do it?" And you still went for it. Even with the "Is it wrong to..." right?(yeah) Think about that? I mean that's a red flag isn't it? (yes....nobody wagged)

Is it wrong to rely on faith? Just think about that. Now uh, the heart of the grace issue is the very fact, that it's not by grace we're saved it's through grace.

That one word makes a huge difference. We watch for that.

You'll never see: 'saved by faith' in the Bible.

We have them all written out here, all the combinations and words, how many. Saved by faith (huh) in bold letters twice. Relying on Jesus means relying on His grace a lot. There is no relying on Jesus without His grace. It isn't really relying on Him. Maybe good intentions and He's merciful.

But it's wrong but He supplies more grace. If you were blind, you would have no guilt. Well, we've been blind to His grace. That doesn't stop Him from supplying all the more though. (thank you Jesus) So learn a lesson. The order, the order, saved by His grace, led by His Spirit, walking by faith. Those are the 3 that are necessary.

They have to be rightly related and operating accordingly in our lives and in our church. Certainly among the older ones. Now the younger ones, well...the next lamb that you find...and another thing..this expression "leading someone to Jesus" is there any validity in that expression? Is that total...uh....we have to consider that. Another thing eh...Gayle has been watching me (clearing throat) Last few days ah

Speaking to unsaved about God's grace and the reaction, amazing reaction that that causes, it's very good at least uh what ai, what I have seen that's a slight matter we have to get into. Everyone of these especially to older people. Again, the younger people uh with 18 year olds, what did we used to say? (unclear) doesn't matter. God's grace, witnessing, making Jesus known to older people such as your parents.(yeah) now Here's a comment, "Righteousness comma Justified comma and Faith in the same verse or next to it in every case in Romans. Almost every case in Romans. That pattern, Righteousness, Justification, and Faith. Not surprising but uh we're going to look closely at it. Grace is given to us, in many verses, it's received by us, also in many verses. Faith increases but it's a measure assigned in the first place. That everyone who has faith maybe justified. Remember, everyone who has faith not everyone does.

And is it true, ah I think it is true that grace grace meets with faith only in the elect. Grace meets with faith. That's one of the tests therefore. Is faith at work in your life and is grace at work in your life. We react with thankfulness. That's our response. The Old Testament version is "Because you did not serve the Lord with joy and gladness by reason of the abundance of all good things" it's physical in the Old but spiritual in the new. But we react with thankfulness. Not because he gave us a new but, uh, out of thankfulness that ah, we indeed are saved, are His.

To him who has will more be given. To him who has not, even what he has will be taken away. The uh other verse, the other thing being "To him has election, will more grace be given and to him who has not the election, even what he has will be taken away. Now there's some correspondence there. analogy. God intends to save the elect. He intends to save the elect no matter what."Of those whom thou gavest me not one is lost but the son of perdition." Remember the elect react with thankfulness and the others take advantage. We have to get into that a lot. However much grace the elect need, it's 25 years of not valuing his grace or whatever. Time of grace, time of need, whatever it is He supplies it. My grace is sufficient, is what He said.

Now here's another one. Is this actually the the deeper view of salvation or is this the only right one that that we must give the lambs? Or how much of each? That is the unsaved 18 year old. How much grace? gotta consider that. Tell em the truth, of course, tell them the truth. How much of it though? How soon? and uh Can only speak one word at a time, present so much at a time. How do know what the balance is there? That's one of the ones we gotta find out. You know uh, you say 137, we used to have bible studies, yeah, for 3 years straight, every night, it was John chapter 3. For three years straight, every night, or was it 5 years straight. At least 3 years straight. Well, that's good and bad.

Well, for what it's worth, "by faith" is 35 times in the Bible, 19 of which are in Hebrews 11. "Through faith" is 22 times and we have the rest written out here. How about the basis of genuine confidence? Any ideas about it?

Paul: It is finished.

Stewart: How bout, we know that we are in Christ because we know if we're fully going to Him, all that we are both good and bad, both, as with no kind of holding out, bad attitudes and we know he won't cast us out because that's his promise. Therefore that we abide in Him. That's the source of confidence. That's the first source right there. Now, joy that we are the elect, how does that sound? (murmuring.. yeah good) That we are, realize we are His chosen, that we have solid reason to say so. That's ah, that's where joy comes from.

Now when they went out, He sent them out two by two. And they were out, casting out demons and they came back..."Lord, even the demons are subject to us." And Jesus uh as you know, He said uh, "Don't rejoice at that but rather that your names are written in the Book of Life." (yeah) What does that show? (voices: Jesus is in control, doesn't depend upon my will or exertion) one at a time.

Brother: I think it shows that He doesn't want us just to be thankful and rejoicing for the things He does through us and for us but that He added grace, He has grace toward us, He has, you know, He fills us for having Jesus in us, that's what he really wants us to be thankful for.

Stewart: First there was a hundred at once and now there's one only. What the matter the 99 are ashamed of what they said or what?

Brother: I think that, it's nothing that we do.

Stewart: Why do He say that?

Brother: Because Jesus, because God said, He reached man not man reached to God.

Stewart: Why'd He say that?

Brother: I think it's because it's that they're the elect, not what God has given him but that there the elect, they're going to heaven.

Stewart: Next

Brother: out of motivation, to being thankful

Brother: so we wouldn't be motivated by going out just to see, that they ah have more power than these people, that was the wrong attitude...that they would be that they were glad that they were saved by grace?

Brother: That, don't get into the wine they get right now but get more into the hope of going to be in heaven, get more fully into that

Brother: That it's by grace that they're names were written in the book of life rather than that they were casting out demons.

Brother: Take, Take encouragement from seeing Jesus do things in our life, but it should just be ah rejoicing that that's a sign we are His elect.

Stewart: Listen, He also said that "many will say that' did we not cast out demons' and He will say, 'I never knew you' ((yeah)). What's the point?

Brother: That the basis isn't the amount of work that Jesus was doing through them but that the basis was through grace. The basis is their right relationship with Jesus be of grace and not works.

Brother: well not that they were something of themselves but that He chose them(agreement)

Brother: that's right, that He chose, He chose them you know by His grace

Stewart: But where's the connection?

Brother: I was thinking that they're not saved through their works but they're saved by His grace and that they should be doing from that and that they should take confidence in that they're also saved and that they're with Him and that they don't have to turn.

Brother: you were chosen by God?

Brother: if We're, we're thankful that and rejoicing that Jesus did give us salvation then we'll be motivated from that rather than looking to any works

Brother: So we hope in Jesus and the resurrection instead of looking to doing it here the piety act.

Stewart: Well, it's really rejoice in the proof of who you are that you are. right? They were rejoicing at the results, right?(yeah yeah)sound familiar?(yes)Rather than what what res uh zuh what it proves about them. And He directed them to what it proves about them.

What what res uh zuh what it proves about them. And He directed them to what it proves about them. Told them to rejoice in that. (thank you Jesus) That faith is at work (yeah) and other things. Our view has to change and fairly dramatically.

It's in the view of grace that you'll come to see that everything makes sense. And, a lot of Christian life is wrapped up in, in living by faith that in fact God's grace has specifically been extended to me. It's not blind faith either. All works have to be the result of thankfulness for grace not trying to earn something.

The result of thankfulness, the desire to please Him and the evidence of His promise at in me. Any questions? Let's hear it. How much of you is spent trying to figure, the amount of faith that you have, concerned with the amount rather than rejoicing over the fact that you have it and what that proves (a lot)

If you have faith in Him that proves that you've been justified by Him. You realize that? However it wouldn't mean anything if you weren't centered in grace. These things would mean nothing. Yes, here's what He was really saying, "Don't rejoice that you have faith to cast out demons, rather rejoice because the fact that you have faith which means that your names are written in the book of life. Therefore, don't rejoice if you can do some work by faith and then feel that you're saved because of these works. Rather rejoice that the works complete the faith that justified you in the first place, that proves who you are.

It's the fact that we have faith that is the good news, because that's the proof that we are His; one of them. And there's no more need to try to convince Jesus to save you. It's the trying to convince Jesus to save them rather than noticing that that He has saved them. (right). Both in His word and in your life.

Then again, there's the score card issue. Now how's the score card going? ah 263 by the way, 37 more, thank you Jesus (thank you Jesus) another score card (laughing) 300 now, gotta open the doors now. Look at this, looks huge in there. Look at that. Thank you Jesus. How's the score card going? (not so good, murmuring) all right (better) now you score card people, let me ask you this, ah How do you tell the difference, what is your means in your score card for telling the difference between a big sin and a little sin? What have you decided, since you've obviously decided something? How do you go about it? hold on, You started it. I mean, You must have some way of doing it, how do you, how do you decide? What is a big sin and what is a little sin? Or uh little sins don't make it on the score card is that it? (no)

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[That was all that was taped ~ it represented only the first of a two day meeting. If anyone has a recording of the second day of this meeting and is willing to send us a copy to complete this post it would be appreciated. Please contact us by sending an email to: or our Facebook address is listed on our 'Contact Us' page. Would very much appreciate having day two of this meeting. Thank you.]