Dan C answers Mike M


''All were baptized into Stewart Traill. In every sense of the word: his teaching, his concepts, his view on life, his skepticism of other Christians. Go and learn what this means.''

Blessed is he and blessed is she who is able to get free from the grip of Stewart Traill and the Church of Bible Understanding, and those who are able to overcome his lies and curses will have a great reward.


Many former members have joined several sites looking for answers. But unfortunately these sites offer little or no comfort or solutions to what we have gone through, at all. Many wander from place to place looking for bread, and find none. Many of these sites are just another form of cobu all over again. On Janyary 1, 2011, we posted 'the blessing of the oil' on several xcobu sites. We were quickly kicked off these sites, without just cause or inquiry. Here is a letter that Mike wrote to me, before he booted me and several members of Living Water. Mike's comments are in black any scripture references are in blue and my comments are in green. We felt that it was only right to respond to the various posts and comments that were made about LW.

The Question Of The Oil 1/4/2011

Dan Cooper Responds to Mike Montoya

Since I have asked now, I think, 2 different times for your permission to ask you questions about your ministry, Dave, and so far there is no response,

Dan Cooper here Mike.
Since when does COBU, or anyone else ask to ask? I don't get it. Perhaps Dave was suspicious of such an approach. It sounds to me like a game he didn't want to play.

Jesus answered him, "I have spoken openly to the world. I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together. I have said nothing in secret. Why do you ask me? Ask those who have heard me what I said to them; they know what I said." (Jn 18:20-21)

Likewise, Dave Simmons is an open book, as you can see from this website. I don't recall at the reunion, you or anyone you may be referring to, asking us about our ministry. But now that we desire to post a simple statement, you're all up in arms? We welcome questions, at least honest ones. But all of COBU has shown itself not to want answers, as if they are going to manifest magically, and then after the moment, the appropriate time for seeking, then they pretend that they really want to know. It reminds me of your laughable retort, 'I got it sitting right here.' Well, it seems you didn't quite get this one.

and because now, since your note,

Not your typical sticky note, huh? Not just a passing thought. And I notice that you do not address the actual 'note'; you still want nothing to do with it. Well then, how are you going to learn of it? The Pharisees did not want to open their minds to any blessing from someone they considered their competition.

two current or former supporters of your ministry have gained access here,

What's this supposed to mean, that you didn't even read the testimonies?

Of course we were supporters of the ministry. It blessed our socks off!

And we had, omg, gained access beforehand, not afterwards, and we had done nothing wrong. You seem not to have remembered our presence there. As for me, I enjoyed that week or so, getting to know the site and its people.

What was it I did wrong again Mike? What did Jan do?

When I asked you, all I got was, 'the way I went about testifying', and the typical COBU: 'you know what you're doing', or 'you know why' something to that affect.

As I said back then, I was guilty only of following Dave Simmons, being blessed by the ministry God gave him.

Now how fair of you was that? How open to the truth? Have you learned anything since then, my brother in the Spirit?

I am now compelled to act.

From what or whom does this compulsion come from, pray tell?

I will first state my positions and then offer a last chance to you Dave, to make clear, right here, in the open, your ministry by answering questions I have as well as questions others have.

Ah yes, the questions of the others. There's always someone doing someone else's dirty work.

And of course, if we don't answer these 'questions' we are not open, are we?

We are quite open; you turn things upside down.

I want to state as clearly as I can my impressions of LW thus far and also restate my role here as moderator for those who may be wondering why I am willing and able to take any action here. My name is Michael James Montoya. I was born of the Spirit, June 30th 1975. My family and I were led to Jesus by members of the Forever Family. I moved into cobu in 1980 and moved out in 1984. In 1998 I started a web page specifically to get ex-members in touch with each other. Soon after the web page I signed up for the OneList discussions. Then later I joined Yahoogroups and the list you are on right now is the very same. I am the list owner and moderator. It has been my intention, and most of my actions bear this out, that I have endeavored to manage this list with the hope that ex-members will find the ones they knew in the group and by talking things out and praying for one another brethren in Christ can heal from the damage they incurred in the cobu.

Yes, we all hoped for such fantasies. And we all, it looks to me, despaired of hoping, for hope deferred makes the heart sick (Pr 13:12), and how much sickness can a heart endure?

They have healed the wound of my people lightly, saying, 'Peace, peace,'when there is no peace. (Jer 6:14)

Because this list is for ex-members, it means that the ex-member who is a christian right now and the ex-member who is not a christian right now are both welcome here.

Well then, everybody's welcome. But wait, we must be in a different category altogether. We must be really weird.

There are rules on this list. These rules have evolved over time as circumstances have arisen which were unforseen and by the amount of personal email I have recieved, some not very nice, I have had to step in and take action.

Oh yes, I'd like to see the emails that prompted this little deed.

What you seem to be saying is that you're making the rules as you go, according to circumstance, and in response to some juicy gossip.
Now if you could fashion your questions so as to effectively cast aspersions on LW...

I have had to expel some who could not abide the rules of this forum.

Well, from the way I've been treated, I don't think I'd like your evolving rules, nor have much chance abiding by them myself.

I have had to warn some who knowingly or unknowingly have made misteps. There are over 130 members on this list and there is the same amount over at Cobu Survivors. There have been other lists and I even started a second list so that arguers could have a place to really have it out but the Sharpen list was hardly used.

Who wants to argue when there's no audience, because the aim is not really to sharpen each other.

Everyone here wanted to stay here and so it was necessary to make rules so that discussions ranging from politics to church doctrine to our time under ST all could be hashed out here and that our Lord would be pleased by our love for one another.

Is this the same kind of love we had in COBU, perhaps way back before something else took over?

Whether you like me being the moderator or not or the owner of this list or not, I am for now and I believe that I am responsible to our Father to tend this list for the good of the brethren here. Having said this, you will now understand why I am concerned by some of the things Tod has said and not said here. I have been bothered by LW as it has been presented by Tod and sometimes by Dave. There are some truths that need to be stated here before I continue. I am a christian. Herman Weiss is a Christian. Nancy Coogan is a Christian.Tod Burros is a Christian. Dave Simmons is a Christian. Steve Saxton is a Christian. Bob San Pascual is a Christian. Dee Dee Rose is a Christian, Dee Jones is a Christian. Chris Blaise is a Christian. Barbara Caban is a Christian. If I didn't name you forgive me. The Lord knows you. Your name is written in heaven. There is a majority of christians here, who walk in the light as He is in the light, and so we have fellowship with one another. I am not questioning what the Lord Jesus has begun in the ones I have mentioned.

Oh no? You mentioned Tod and Dave, but you have many questions. But are you all really from walking in the light? From that great fellowship you speak of?

Now, to your ministry Dave. Why don't you respond? And Tod, why do you pick and choose where and when and who you show this ministry to? Dave writes this email about what LW is about. Okay fine. I have questions. Now we get into the whole thing we already got into. You and Dave say you have a ministry for ex-cobu members. Like I said....That means us! You are on one of the largest gatherings on line of ex-members. Whether you have been honest about your intentions here or not, the impression is still questionable.

Oh really, so where is the benefit of the doubt? Since when are we to judge by impressions?

Neil Pendry has his little group. He is steeped in heresy and is not welcome here. Chris Blaise when he had the chance would make his appeal for those here to join him over on his list, which was wierd because this is not a competition and I am not a super center leader and neither is he and so racking up the numbers was never an issue at least for me. Chris' boast of number of messages is to his shame and misunderstanding of what this list is and what his list is. And now, as much as you Tod say that you are not pushing your ministry and not trying to bring it up and Dave hardly appears on this list and gosh LW is not trying to push their thing.....the result of your non-pushing, non-selling is that you are now here and using this list as a means to get your ministry presented. Now is this wrong? Well, no, if you were open about it. You have not been forthright. Dave has not been either. I have questions, others have questions. Not only is it normal, it is scriptural and our duty as Christians to test everything. Have you Tod, or you Dave brought your ministry to our attention or anyone's attention to see whether or not you were running in vain or laboring in vain?

If you were not running in vain yourself, or shall we just say, if you had something that we needed and wanted, we might have come to you by now.

Why should those who have been healed from a disease seek help from those who show that they have not been healed of the same disease but say that they have?

And why would we seek your attentions, when LW has been known and ignored for years?

There are plenty of COBU brothers and sisters who have been blessed by Dave & Cynthia and their fellowship, but isn't it remarkable that you don't investigate them and their stories?

You'd rather take the word of one or two disgruntled 'disciples' who say they were hurt rather than blessed by the ministry, but have you considered that choice, that way of thinking, might be backwards?

If you come here talking about your ministry to ex-members, are you seeking ordination or approval or certification or advice? Don't tell me, "we didn't bring up our ministry, others did" sorry....you did bring up your testimony and you have alluded to your ministry enough that even without Chris' charges we would have known about it. What I am asking for is walking in the Light. You and Dave have a ministry. fine. Now what? What do you want any of us to do about it? Do you want us to join? Do you want us to spread the word about it? What are you asking anyone here to do? If you cannot be clear on this minor point then how can you expect anyone here to trust you further? Dave, if you are opening your ministry up to brethren here, then field questions here about your ministry. If you don't care that some here have questions and you don't intend to answer anyone here then do not offer your ministry. I for one am not going to stand here and have you or Tod or anyone come on this list and offer some ministry which has born no scrutiny. Testimonials from the few who have been blessed by your work does not meet the test. Call up current cobu and ask them if they are being fed or blessed by ST....you can get at least 50 testimonials of how God is using ST.

Apart from testing it yourself--what a novel idea--you could listen to testimony from those who have. Why have you so easily rejected ours?

Do your 'rules' judge a man or his ministry without first giving him a hearing and learning what he does? (Jn 7:51)

Looks like they: The ministry has borne much scrutiny, and scorn, and false testimony, so we thought you might accept some true testimony, but as soon as you see where it's going, that it is speaking of something as praiseworthy, you don't want to hear it, and have apparently closed your ears.

You have tested it only as much as you desire to test it, and have passed judgment.

You open your ear to false witness, and therefore you judge falsely.

So I now extend for a 3rd or 4th time. Dave Simmons, will you in the next couple of days, field some questions from brethren here in order to make clear that your ministry is of God? If you are unwilling then I will make the arrangements for you and Tod not to be here in the capacity of ministers. Because this is how you see yourselves, but you have not behaved as ones who have met the test, then I am responsible deny your access here. I will not tolerate heresy here and I will not tolerate false teaching or false shepherds. If you are not guilty then you have nothing to fear, if you are zealous for what's right. If you have erred then there are brethren here who have been given wisdom by God and are trained in the scriptures to correct you with gentleness.

Is this what your fellowship on this site has displayed, Mike? Wisdom from the Scriptures and gentleness?

If you both were here simply to fellowship or talk then there would not be an issue. Because your ministry and some of your supporters are now here, I will not bypass this ultimatum of testing for the sake of a few testimonials. We ex-members have been fooled and burned by a false christ and a false teacher. I do not want to be responsible for any here being led astray again. We must test all things. If you do not want to be tested I will give you a final email for you to invite this whole list to join you on your own list or web site or call you or write you. By then they will know what you are, either by your response or lack thereof.
Mike Montoya

I guess they learned a lot from your responsible action, huh?

But you couldn't even abide by your own decision here! We were not worthy of even this consideration!

What was that spiel about everybody first of all being Christians? This is not Christian behavior.

We see the old ways, thoughts, spirits, habits, judgments, etc. at work here; it doesn't matter what you label it, or how you try to justify it. Its wreaks of COBU character, or the lack thereof, and we don't care for that.

This is what we are getting free from!

Why subject ourselves to it again!?

If you were a fraction of the percentage free, of Stewart and his cult, that you claim to be, you wouldn't so quickly resort to the same tactics we learned from him to trust and live by.

I will further say, that my two sons were so moved by the transformation they saw in my life after I received the "blessing of the oil" that they asked to also receive the oil blessing, for the wounds they incurred through me, due to the damage of Cobu. And they were excited to hear that I was writing up my testimony to be posted for all to see and they wanted to post theirs as well! Due to your policy of not caring to hear the blessings received apart from YOUR approval, you and those on your sight were not able to hear these blessings either!

Dan Cooper